Perry Knoppert is a mad multipotentialite misfit. He says “Here’s to the crazy ones, the misfits, the rebels, the troublemakers, the round pegs in the square holes … the ones who see things differently…” So obviously, I had to invite him onto the show. Creator of the Octopus Movement, dr. Octopus is a nonlinear thinker creating a global mycelium network of atypical thinkers.

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Multipotentialite Dude and Creator of the Octopus Movement Perry Knoppert



It’s time to talk about what happens after the show. Listen as I tell you about the time I danced on stage with Jane’s Addiction and Joe Perry at Lollapalooza and the post-performance depression that followed. Full story in the episode or at

Perry Knoppert is a mad multipotentialite misfit. He says “Here’s to the crazy ones, the misfits, the rebels, the troublemakers, the round pegs in the square holes … the ones who see things differently…” So obviously, I had to invite him on the show. Creator of the Octopus Movement, dr. Octopus is a nonlinear thinker creating a global mycelium network of atypical thinkers.

Hello, Perry. Welcome to the show.

[00:07:38.610] – Perry Knoppert

Hello, Diane. How are you today?

[00:07:40.850] – Diane Foy

I’m fantastic. I’m here. We were just saying I’m in Toronto, Canada, and you’re in the Netherlands. In a small, boring town, you say. But I love the name of your podcast. Is multipotentialite dude.

[00:08:03.230] – Perry Knoppert

Yeah, that’s funny, right?

[00:08:06.270] – Diane Foy

It’s funny because I was just looking up to see who else was doing things with multipotentiality, multipassionate. I use the word multipassionate. Multipassionate artist is who I work with. So tell me, I’m curious, how did you first discover that multi potentiality is even a thing?

[00:08:33.170] – Perry Knoppert

That’s always a good question. I thought for 44 years that I was just weird. And I think I’m still weird and I am weird. But a few years ago, two years ago, a friend of mine sent me an article about creative generalist. And he said to me, you need to check this out. And I was reading it and I send them a message, no, that’s not me. And we were laughing and of course, it’s me, the creative journalist, so many ideas all over the place, et cetera. I told a good friend of mine who has the same way of looking to the world. And she said to me, she’s from Texas and she’s living in Brussels. And she said, oh, you have to check out that Ted Talk of Emily Bougnik about multi potential acts. And I checked it out like many people did. And I thought, oh, that’s fun. So more people are like me. I always thought that I was just me being silly and different and misfits and whatnot. And that started to a very interesting journey where I thought, I need to meet other multi potentialites. And I started reading books.

[00:09:50.770] – Perry Knoppert

Barbara Sheer, of course, refused to choose. Right. And other books. That was very interesting. I liked that.

[00:09:59.810] – Diane Foy

Yeah, I think I had seen Barbara Sheer’s book first, and I guess I don’t think I was in a place to really absorb it, so I kind of put it back down. And then when I decided that I’m going to put everything on my website, just, whatever I do. I had no idea what I was going to do that year. And everyone told me it was a horrible idea.

[00:10:24.470] – Perry Knoppert

Yeah, we’ll do that.

[00:10:25.880] – Diane Foy

It’s a horrible idea. You’ll confuse your audience. And I’m like, I’m going to do it anyways. And then when I saw that Ted Talk, it was like, see, I’m not the only one. And it’s a superpower. And there’s so many great things about people who are multi potential lights or multipassionate artists. So it’s great that it was kind of a light bulb moment for, I guess, all of us crazy people to see that talk.

[00:10:58.430] – Perry Knoppert

You know what I did with a good friend? We organized a lunch meeting with other multipotentialites in the Netherlands, and we thought, oh, we need to talk to them. That was the first thing we did. And we had, I think, around 30 multipotentialites together. Very interesting. 28 of them were divorced. I thought that was a sign. Immediately I thought, there’s something else going on there. And it was a lot of fun. So immediately talking and connecting and creating and it was so much fun. Everybody understood each other immediately. That was the most interesting part for me.

[00:11:40.100] – Diane Foy

Because most people don’t understand us.

[00:11:42.650] – Perry Knoppert

No, we explain half a sentence and we think that they will get the whole sentence or the whole paragraph even if we do half a sentence and they don’t. Right. And we’re wondering, but why not? Because if you tell me something and you start talking, I only need a few words, and I completely understand what you’re talking about. So why not with me? But when you put people like that together, oh, God, is that fun?

[00:12:14.010] – Diane Foy

Yeah, that’s great. And so tell me about your creative journey. How do you describe what you do?

[00:12:27.190] – Perry Knoppert

I’m now very focused. I do one thing. I do the Octopus movement. I’m the founder of the Octopus movement. And it all started after that discovery of multipotentiality that I thought, I need to talk to others. I need to understand what’s going on and why. And just very interesting. And I started doing podcasts interviews. Pandemic started. So everybody all of a sudden know how to use Zoom. How cool is that? So everybody was available, and I started talking to people using LinkedIn. So I did a search for multi potential on LinkedIn, saw all these amazing profiles and just selected a few and said, okay, I want to interview you. Are you open for it? And I interviewed people in Bangladesh, in South Africa, in Canada, all over the world immediately. And that’s where it all started, because it was again, like that lunch thing we did. The connection was there immediately. So even though there was a lot of difference in background or culture or age or gender or whatever, there was always that instant neuron connection between two brains that are on fire, basically. And I thought that was fascinating. But if it’s that easy to connect with people who I don’t know and have an instant friendship, what’s happening in the world?

[00:14:09.390] – Perry Knoppert

Why is it all so difficult then? It’s easy. But I was connecting with the right people, right? I was connecting with other multi potential ads. So after a little while, I was doing a clubhouse session every day for half an hour just to talk about multi potentiality. And I was interviewing people, and I discovered that most of the people that I interviewed don’t only have multiple potentiality but also have some form of neuro diversity. And that was even more fascinating to me. I have Dyslexia ADHD, but it was never a thing in my life. I was just weird. I never thought about that. That’s the reason. Maybe I was weird or I am weird. And I discovered that most of them also have neurodiversity.

[00:15:03.380] – Diane Foy

I don’t.

[00:15:03.980] – Perry Knoppert

And wow, you don’t. Are you sure?

[00:15:08.630] – Diane Foy

No. What is your definition of that? Like you’re mentioning it’s, having ADHD. Is there anything else?

[00:15:17.030] – Perry Knoppert

Well, yeah, that’s the funny thing, of course, because if you start talking about neurodiversity, then in the end, we all have neurodiversity. It’s just the diversity of our brains. But I’m talking about labels. So people with ADHD, with bipolar Dyslexia, so many things. And I was thinking, what’s there first? Is there the label within neurodiversity first? And as an outcome, there is multipleity. That’s something I wanted to know. So I started talking to researchers, companies, and I was diving into it more and more and talking about it every day on clubhouse. And at one point, I said to someone, I have difficulty with the word multi potential life because it’s a label by itself. Again, it’s a box. And there’s something so beautiful about multipassionate, multi potentialites. It’s that everything is possible, right? That we’re focused on so many things. We can learn so fast, we can make so many connections. Why the hell would we put that in a box? That’s not fair.

[00:16:30.900] – Diane Foy

Well, like Emily was saying, there’s so many words for it. We all can’t agree. It’s like to find your people, you have to Google multipassionate, multi potentialite. You have to Google Renaissance person. Holy scanner.

[00:16:45.630] – Perry Knoppert

Generalist scanner, all that in France, they call it zebra. Zebra.

[00:16:52.100] – Diane Foy

I haven’t heard that one before.

[00:16:53.670] – Perry Knoppert

Cool. And I was thinking, but it’s also, I also find the brains interesting of people with autism. They don’t necessarily are multipotentialites, but they’re different. So I went more to the aspect of being different than multi passionate or multi potential life. And I asked in this clubhouse group, I said, what kind of symbol do we have for people that don’t fit in the box? And then someone said, oh, I always use the emoji of an octopus just because I like an octopus or a squid. I said, Why? I don’t know.

[00:17:39.050] – Diane Foy

You have a many different hands in all different things.

[00:17:42.060] – Perry Knoppert

Exactly. Well, they came to me later, and then someone else said to me, have you seen this was Haley from South Africa was saying, have you seen my Octopus Teacher, the documentary that’s available on Netflix? And I watched that the same evening. And I was watching that documentary. I was like, oh, but we’re octopuses. We have three hearts because some of those are super sensitive and we can feel everything that’s happening around us. And some people have, like, an octopus, nine brains. We’re so fast in learning and understanding and connecting the dots. And some of us are an octopus, like, with our eight arms, that we’re doing things at the same time, multi everything. And I thought, that’s so much better than a multi potential, either polymeth or a jackofall trade or whatever. I want to create the octopus movement. I want to explain to the world, if you’re different, that’s pretty cool. That’s awesome. And if you don’t understand me, that’s okay. Weird ones. We’re amazing in creating new things. We’re amazing in innovation. We’re amazing in creating startups and new companies. So let us be right. Just let us do our thing. And be a bit crazy.

[00:19:16.770] – Perry Knoppert

We don’t fit the box and the box. Then I was thinking, what is the box? Well, the box is what we learn at school. The box is the system. And someone in the beginning asked me, can you learn how to become a milk? Potential said, no, impossible. I asked everyone that I interviewed, is your parents also, is your mother or your father also military potential? Most of them said, yeah, I never thought about it. But my mother is a multi patented as well. That was always a funny response.

[00:19:52.290] – Diane Foy

Maybe I don’t belong to this group because my parents are not.

[00:19:55.120] – Perry Knoppert

No, that’s also possible. Most of them.

[00:19:57.760] – Diane Foy

But I’m just the weird one family I love.

[00:20:00.440] – Perry Knoppert

That be weird. I love weird people. And I’m completely lost now where I am. That’s funny.

[00:20:16.490] – Diane Foy

You’re saying that most people that you interviewed, their parents were also multi potential.

[00:20:23.030] – Perry Knoppert

Yeah. So for me, it was so much fun to see the octopus and to create the awareness because of the box, because the linear thinking, that’s something that came a little bit later for me that I was thinking, what is the difference between being weird and not being weird? And it’s a bit strange to say about yourself that you’re weird or misfit. That’s not very positive. And I started thinking about all the people that I’ve interviewed and all the people that I’m meeting. And all of a sudden I was thinking, that’s nonlinear thinking, we’re doing it in a non linear way. And what we learn at school and what’s happening in our society is all very linear. Right. You follow the path from A to B to C to D, and that’s it.

[00:21:16.150] – Diane Foy

What are you supposed to do?

[00:21:17.640] – Perry Knoppert

That’s what you’re supposed to do. What do you do in your life? And then most people say, I’m an accountant. You know, they’re not saying what they’re doing in life, but they’re giving their job description because that identifies themselves, because that fits in a very specialist society, which I see as a linear society. And people that are multi potentialize different are nonlinear thinkers for me. And those are the people that do things differently and they all have a difficult life. Nobody is going to say, oh, that’s easy. I’m a nonlinear thinker, and this is such an easy road. It’s not. But when you do achieve some linear results with your nonlinear brain and your nonlinear path, then you will find amazing new, creative or innovative new things that are really awesome, like what Steve Jobs did with the iPhone, for instance. Typically, for me, nonlinear thinking, that’s my creative journey now. And before that, I did many, many things. And for me, it feels like it all came together. I discovered my multi potentiality doing research, and I was never thinking about I need to create a movement. It just happens. And it’s more than a year now.

[00:22:48.050] – Perry Knoppert

It’s just over a year. We have more than 1400 members all over the world. And we’re doing the most amazing things. Why? Because we have this, mycelium network of interesting brains that are different. Wow, that’s amazing. Yeah.

[00:23:07.870] – Diane Foy

So what do you do in this membership?

[00:23:10.970] – Perry Knoppert

Well, what we do is we want to create awareness of nonlinear thinking. That that’s something that if you send your resume to the HR Department of the company where you want to work and the HR manager looks at your resume as a note to potentialize and thinks, oh, my God, this is someone who cannot focus or stay in one job or what the hell is this? I want people to think, oh, that’s cool. This is a nonlinear thinker. This is someone who has a lot of experience in everything. And these are the problem solvers I need in my company. These are the creative, innovative people I’m looking for. These are the people that if we come in trouble with your company, these are the people that will move forward and create new ideas. That’s what I want to achieve with the Octopus movement, that there is more awareness of the awesomeness of atypical thinkers. And we do that by our think tank. We created a think tank with these atypical brains and we’re working together to solve global issues. And we’re writing white papers with solutions in how we can solve issues like climate change, human rights, women’s rights.

[00:24:35.930] – Perry Knoppert

Now we’re working on an app for the refugees in Europe. Equality, diversity. That’s what we’re working on. It’s awesome. And it’s awesome because we’re not a political movement. We don’t have an agenda. We’re just people with amazing brains. There is no money involved. There is no politics involved. We’re just doing it. We’re just creating a difference. We have a group of Octopus teachers where we teach at schools and we explain diversity to kids because these poor little things are in a linear structure where there’s an attitude of if you work hard, if you do your homework well, if you focus and you get good grades and you study well, you get a good job and you will be happy in life. Yeah, fuck me. That’s not true. It’s not true.

[00:25:35.450] – Diane Foy

It’s a long time to figure it out.

[00:25:37.890] – Perry Knoppert

Yeah, it’s not true, people. It’s not true. I always ask these kids, what do you want to become when you grow up? And then these little arms go up and all I want to be a vet or an artist or a dancer or whatever. And then I always say, but maybe you can become a fan and a dancer and an artist all at the same time. And then these kids of ten years old are saying to me, no, and this is Liberal Netherlands. No, that’s not possible. And I’m thinking, okay, wow, already when they’re ten, they’re thinking, this is not possible. What the hell? So I’m explaining them. That that’s possible. And then I’m explaining them and we’re explaining them. What real diversity is that we’re different and that some people are very sensitive, that some people are very fast thinkers, but respond a little bit differently than others. Some people do a lot of things at the same time. Some people need to have a lot of noise and movement around them to be able to focus, and some people want everything to be quiet. It’s not fair that there is a linear structure in education where we expect all of them to be the same and to choose your subjects to go for your IB.

[00:27:05.970] – Perry Knoppert

My kids go to international school, so they’re doing their IB. Oh, my God. The linear structure is that nothing is possible. And if you do this, then that and if you do well, you’re successful. So these kids already learned that if they don’t do well according to the linear system, they’re not successful. That’s not true. That’s not fair.

[00:27:30.410] – Diane Foy

Yeah, that’s what we do. Too many people go through and follow all the advice and finish high school, go to University, and then they’re kind of lost when they graduate, when especially these days, you’re not even guaranteed a job. Now you finish University and you’re kind of lost. But if you knew from a young age that that’s just the way life is going to go, and you can kind of go in any different direction.

[00:28:00.350] – Perry Knoppert

There’S more possibly okay to stop and to change direction. It’s okay and to do multiple things. I have someone in the movement. She’s from Japan. She’s so intelligent, so bright, so funny, amazing. And she does two studies at the same time in the US because it’s not possible in Japan. So in Japan, everything is very linear. So it also is, depending on the culture, how linear sometimes the structures are. Germany awful. Japan awful. So she’s not able to do two studies at the same time in Japan. And she wants that because her brain needs that. Her brain needs the fuel to go forward. And if she’s not being challenged big time, she gets depressed. So she needs that challenge, and she can’t get it, because we’re expecting children to do one study at the same time because we decided with each other in a very linear structure that that’s the way forward. Holy shit. That’s wrong. That’s not working. So we’re not changing the educational system because that’s a big project. We’re just explaining this to the kids and the teachers and saying to them, Listen, it can be different as well. And if you have neurodiversity like Dyslexia, that’s a superpower.

[00:29:27.980] – Perry Knoppert

You can’t read and write, fine. It’s not the end of the world. Teachers are complaining. The system is complaining. You should be here and you’re there. That’s not a good thing. Trust me. Having Dyslexia is awesome. If you become an artist or an entrepreneur, you will benefit big time from having Dyslexia. Look at Richard Branson, the British dude who went to space as well. He made it in life. He is so dyslexic. It’s awful. But thanks to his dyslexia, he was able to see patterns that other people couldn’t see. He was able to make connections. What we met a potential life can do very well as well and use that. But nobody is saying to these kids when they have something in neurodiversity, oh, Congratulations. That’s really awesome. I’m jealous of you, and they should do that.

[00:30:26.330] – Diane Foy

I used to be jealous of people who would, like, from a young age, know what they want to do, and then that’s all they want to do for the rest of their lives. I was like, wow, that’s cool, because there’s something wrong with me that I can’t do that.

[00:30:43.490] – Perry Knoppert

I married her because of that. My first wife. Right. She was so focused. She was so into one thing, and I thought, that’s how it’s supposed to be. I want to see that up close. I want to feel that I want to be there. And I was always so proud of her for doing that. It’s awesome. And she was having fun with me because I was doing lots of different things at the same time, and nothing was a problem. So that was very inspirational for her. In the end, we annoyed the freaking hell out of each other because of the huge difference there. And that’s why it’s now my ex wife. But of course, in the beginning, I loved it. Oh, this is how you make success. Wow. I want to be there.

[00:31:34.160] – Diane Foy

Yeah. And Emily was saying that a lot of us, when we have an interest, we dive in 100%, learn everything we can, but then after a while, we get bored. It’s like when it’s no longer challenging, we’re like, dreading.

[00:31:53.640] – Perry Knoppert

I have a theory about that.

[00:31:55.590] – Diane Foy


[00:31:55.990] – Perry Knoppert

I want to share this with you. Let’s create some noisy I have a theory about that. I used to do that a lot. And I get a lot of questions about focus and bored. And I hate the word being bored because I’m never bored. I find everything interesting. It’s the challenge that I find interesting of starting something new, and then the challenge goes away and I’m less interested. But I discovered that I needed that challenge constantly in order to feel good. I was trying to be someone that I was not. I was trying to be the specialist. I was trying to do the things that supposed to be doing in my life, my expectations that I had of myself and my family and my wife had from me. There were another line of who I was. And because I was coping with that, because I was trying to be different, I needed to feel good. I need to compensate. And in order to compensate, I was doing these things constantly. New things, constantly creating new things to get that positive flow in my mind now that I know I’m a melted potentialized, and that I am who I am and as dyslexic as you can get and ADHD and I’m crazy and I have nail Polish on and I’m not even gay.

[00:33:25.480] – Perry Knoppert

What the hell? I don’t even like heavy metal. It’s not in line. I do crazy things and it’s fine. And if you don’t like it, well, too bad for you. I’m enjoying this life. I’m creating things. I’m building up things. I’m creating a book with 398 nonlinear thinkers. It’s awesome. And because it feels good that I’m doing what I need to do, I don’t have that urge of creating new things in order to feel good. How about that, right?

[00:34:03.890] – Diane Foy

That’s cool.

[00:34:06.270] – Perry Knoppert

Maybe it’s my age. I don’t know. Maybe I’m just having a midlife crisis and it works the other way around with me because I’m focused as hell now, and this is what I do, and I will be doing this for the rest of my life. I’m sure this is it, right? Maybe it’s because of my age. Maybe it’s because I’m 46 and everything came together. That’s also possible, of course.

[00:34:28.740] – Diane Foy

Yeah. I think I’ve changed careers a lot. And now I can just accept that whatever I want to do, I can do it. And I also created a job now that incorporates everything I’ve learned up to this point and everything I’m going to continue to learn and go in different directions. And now I’m never bored now. But it’s those times where we kind of stayed with them.

[00:35:04.880] – Perry Knoppert

The same thing for you, right? You’re bringing everything together. You are who you are. If people don’t understand you, then it’s their loss. And because you’re having the time of your life and you’re really being you, and probably same as for me, you haven’t always been you right. Yeah, I think I Unfortunately.

[00:35:33.490] – Diane Foy

We probably spent too long hiding who I really was.

[00:35:41.010] – Perry Knoppert

Because we don’t like it. There are these Internet gurus shouting, then you need to do this and fuck others opinions. Sorry for my language. And then that’s easier said than done, isn’t it? Because if someone is saying something very nasty to you, then your brain can think, okay, ignore this. This is his problem. It’s his trauma, not mine and whatever, but it’s still coming into your system. It’s not nice and we can’t ignore it. We can say we want to ignore it, but it’s very difficult to ignore. And the younger you are, the more difficult it is. And especially when you’re surrounded with people. Well, listen to yourself. Your parents were no multi potential, so how on Earth were they able to understand you? Right?

[00:36:34.040] – Diane Foy

I was a late bloomer because I tried to follow the linear. And I probably stayed in jobs longer than I should have because, well, steady, steady paycheck is all that really matters, apparently. And now I think my life now really makes my mother nervous because she’s like, I don’t know how you can live like that. But now I’m so used to it that I’m like, yeah, not at all.

[00:37:05.550] – Perry Knoppert

Yeah. It makes me happy. This is my life, right? Yeah.

[00:37:09.850] – Diane Foy

It’s a roller coaster. It’s like it goes up and down in many different directions, and there’s a lot of exciting things along the way. It’s just really cool.

[00:37:20.070] – Perry Knoppert

Yeah. We love that.

[00:37:21.580] – Diane Foy

I couldn’t imagine just having the same job for the rest of my life.

[00:37:26.430] – Perry Knoppert

No. Can you imagine having the same job for 30 or 40 years working in the same Excel sheet?

[00:37:34.770] – Diane Foy


[00:37:36.270] – Perry Knoppert

Thank God. There are a lot of people out there that can do that. That’s a good thing.

[00:37:41.370] – Diane Foy

Yeah, right. And a lot of people are happy just having that job, and maybe they find fulfillment outside of that job and it works for them again. Different mindset, different priorities, different values, different everything.

[00:38:02.850] – Perry Knoppert

We love diversity, so I love it. It’s fine. But let’s bring it a little bit in balance here, right? It’s okay. It’s okay to have diversity, but let’s really understand and respect each other. And if we’re different and we’re doing things at the same time and have multiple passions, then don’t say to us that we’re not specialists because we’re specialists at many levels. Don’t say to us, we can’t focus because we can even focus better. I have a theory. I think we’re able to focus better than specialists. If you’re a specialist, you focus on one area and you go deeper and deeper and deeper. Yeah, that’s easy. If you’re a multi potentialite, you focus on multiple areas at the same time. You focus on this, you focus on that. And we’re constantly complaining that we should be able to focus even better. But we’re already doing an amazing job. We’re doing multiple focus. Explain that to a specialist.

[00:39:14.030] – Diane Foy


[00:39:14.600] – Perry Knoppert

How easy is it if you’re a financial expert that is in figures the whole day and always in Excel sheets and saying to us, you need to focus more, dude, we’re having focus on so many areas at the same time. Try that.

[00:39:35.200] – Diane Foy

Yeah. And that Jack of all trades, master of none thing drives me up the wall because the things that I’m an expert in, I have things to back it up. It’s not like they weren’t passing interests. When we get interested in something, we dive in and we want to dive into everything about it.

[00:40:01.230] – Perry Knoppert

Yeah. It’s not the wind blowing from the east that we get our special training and knowledge in a topic. We dive in and we research and we don’t sleep. We continue and we continue and we continue until we get it, and then we go away.

[00:40:21.690] – Diane Foy

Then we move on. Sometimes I find it interesting that some interests we dive in and we might be interested in them forever. And then there’s other interests that were like, yeah, we just kind of peek in and then. Yeah, I’m over it. It’s interesting how we have different levels of interest and things.

[00:40:48.030] – Perry Knoppert

Yeah. If we find out it’s not interesting enough. Of course there is the 10,000 hours rule, but maybe it doesn’t apply to us. Maybe for us it’s the 5000 hours rule. And I think after 1000 hours or even after 500 hours, we already can see this is going to work or this is not going to work. And how cool is that that we try so many things and we discover very fast. That’s our specialty as well, that we can discover very fast this is going to work or not. And sometimes we have to put it aside and it comes back years and years and years later. That’s what Barbara shares also writing about. Right. Put it in a box. Don’t throw it away. It will come back or not. It’s also fine. But I find it fascinating in my own life when something comes back. I have parked this for 20 years and now I need it. Thank you so much. And then you use it and people are like, oh God, that’s cool. And how do you know how to do that? Yeah, I learned 20 years ago. Very straight.

[00:41:57.490] – Diane Foy

Yeah, that’s very interesting too. You dive in and you work so hard for something and then when you pivot to something else, sometimes I’ve dropped things. And I’m like, you never do that anymore. I’m like, no. Do you miss it? Not really. But maybe I’ll pick it up one day and then ten years later you’re like, I’m back.

[00:42:19.770] – Perry Knoppert

Exactly. And is it for you as well that the research by itself can sometimes be enough that it feels like you’re doing it even though it’s just research in how to make whatever. And then you researched everything and in our minds, we did it already. Yeah. That was nice. That was a nice experience. Bye bye. That’s enough.

[00:42:45.610] – Diane Foy

That’s cool. Yeah. I like the idea in Barbara’s book about the I haven’t done it yet. But how you have a book where you can get all your ideas out and sometimes that’s enough than to actually pursue it.

[00:43:00.230] – Perry Knoppert

Yeah. That’s his writing in one of her books. That’s her advice. Yeah. Don’t finish projects. How cool is that? Because everybody is saying you need to finish. That’s the linear structure in our world. And she’s saying, well, don’t finish, just start and see what happens. And please don’t finish, just throw it away. It’s fine. That’s of course, very nonlinear and interesting advice in a linear world.

[00:43:26.780] – Diane Foy

Yeah. And we still get stuff out of it. It’s not a waste of time.

[00:43:31.110] – Perry Knoppert

No, definitely not.

[00:43:34.090] – Diane Foy

Wow, that’s wonderful. Is there anything else you would like to share with us? You have a lot of artists in your group.

[00:43:45.790] – Perry Knoppert

Many artists. Interesting artists. Anyway, interesting people. Also a lot of people that want to be an artist that never became an artist because that’s not what was expected from them. Here we go again. And I always say to them, so what’s the definition of art. So when are you an artist? Tell me. There is no definition. So there is no rule or diploma in being an artist. It’s not when your art is at a Gallery that at that point you’re an artist. Maybe it feels for you that way, but that’s not how it works. I know artists that never sold anything, and they have a whole workspace full of art beautifully. And they’re not sending anything. They can they can’t let go. And they don’t consider themselves as artists because they’re not selling anything. How linear. Here we go again.

[00:45:03.060] – Diane Foy

How linear. You’re an artist.

[00:45:05.010] – Perry Knoppert

You’re an artist.

[00:45:06.380] – Diane Foy

It may not be a business, but you’re an artist.

[00:45:09.670] – Perry Knoppert

Yeah. You’re not making a living out of it. But do we need to make a living out of something to really be that person? Do we need to make money to be successful? No. This is very linear. No. So if you want to be an artist and you’re creating things, whatever it is, you’re an artist. I always say that I’m a life artist as well. I create an art in living how to live my life and to create something beautiful out of my life itself makes me already an artist. And it’s easier. I get it. When I published my first book with my photos, it really helped. It made me feel more as an artist. It’s absolutely true. But it’s interesting to talk about this and ask, when are you an artist truly? And forget about the linear structure. When are you an artist? What is art anyway?

[00:46:11.170] – Diane Foy

Well, I was also looking at one time the difference between creative and artists. I was trying to figure out in my messaging, do I want to use the word artists or creatives? And it helped when I looked up kind of the definitions is that anyone’s creative, you could be a very creative accountant. An artist is someone who actually creates something tangible. And so I use artists because I mostly coach either visual artists, painters, or most of my experiences with musicians and actors, performing artists.

[00:47:03.110] – Perry Knoppert

I like that what you’re saying. Creative, indeed. Creative is within a structure. You do things differently, but it’s still within the boundaries that’s being creative. Very cool. Keep it that way. And an artist really goes beyond everything in whatever you do in writing, in performing, in painting, in being in everything. Look at Andy Warhol. The biggest brand that he made was himself, essentially. Right.

[00:47:34.300] – Diane Foy


[00:47:34.740] – Perry Knoppert

But an artist. And how fascinating was it to find out that he also tried to fit in? So he was the biggest artist at his time and amazing. He created his own brand, being antiwarl itself, and still he wanted to try to fit in.

[00:47:58.880] – Diane Foy


[00:48:00.050] – Perry Knoppert


[00:48:01.610] – Diane Foy

That’s interesting. Cool. What is your why do you do what you do?

[00:48:11.610] – Perry Knoppert

Oh, God. I wrote an article about why I do what I do. It’s very simple. I do this because I find people that are different, so beautiful. And it’s so not fair if we don’t give them a stage, a platform, time to talk. It’s not fair. And that’s my why I just want to put the spotlights on atypical thinkers, on nonlinear people that are different because they’re fascinating and they create a beautiful world. And if we’re all would be a little bit more like them, then the world would look differently. I don’t think Putin is a nonlinear thinker. I think he’s very linear. Right?



[00:49:06.930] – Perry Knoppert

And these companies in the world that are destroying our planets, destroying our climate, it’s so linear. It’s so money driven. We want to grow. We want to expand. We want shareholder value. That’s where we’re going to that we kill creatures or even humans. We don’t care all about our pocket and our money. Wow. So if we could balance that a little bit out, that would be interesting. Of course, here in Europe, we have debates about women’s rights, women in organizations. I don’t think it’s a gender issue. I think it’s a linear structure issue. These companies are so boxed structured, it’s incredible. There’s no room for anything else. And it’s mill dominated because men have a nothing box. Most of them. Right. It’s very structured in boxes. This is my box of work. This is the box of my wife. This is the box of the kids, and this is the box of the car. And this is the box being with my friends in the bar and I choose in what box I am, and that’s it. And sometimes I’m in the nothing box and I’m not thinking about anything. Right. And your wife comes home, what are you thinking about?

[00:50:37.630] – Perry Knoppert

Nothing. Even there’s nothing box. There’s just nothing happening here. We cannot imagine like being like that. But that’s 80%, right? It’s like that. So if that’s the structure and this is the structure of organizations, then it’s not going to work. It’s very simple. That’s why you see now with startups that don’t work like that, that there is no issue with gender. Everything is possible. So why is that? It’s not because of gender, it’s because of the structure. So for act sake, let’s do something about that. That’s my wife.

[00:51:20.190] – Diane Foy

Lovely. And where can people find you? Online?

[00:51:26.130] – Perry Knoppert

They go to and they can find everything there. Become a member. It’s for free. We do everything for free. I wanted to be open for everyone. If you’re nonlinear coming, if you’re linear coming. We have linear members that are awesome.

[00:51:41.700] – Diane Foy

That’d be cool. Yeah. Because we got to learn about each other. Well, we kind of already know about them, but they need to learn about us.

[00:51:48.290] – Perry Knoppert

Well, both ways. And when we have the dates on our Facebook group for the Octopus movement. And I create a statement every day and a quote and a bit and lots of things happening. And it’s so nice to see all the people responding. And also I have a very linear response from time to time and thinking, yeah, but that’s also true, right? We shouldn’t get lost in our own creative multipotentialized brain. There’s also that other part. So diversity is everything. So go to It’s all for free. Join us. Become a member of the think tank or an octopus teacher. We will invite you to the Facebook group, which is really a lot of fun, because again, diversity everything is there. Everyone is there. And we’re having very interesting and funny conversations. And final thing, if you’re listening to this and you’re nonlinear and you’re special and you’re a bit of a misfit and you want to share something about yourself to the world, please check out the, because we’re creating a book, which is called Project 398, and it’s an art book with 398 nonlinear, amazing people in it. You get one page with your photo and one page with your text.

[00:53:12.070] – Perry Knoppert

Maximum 450 words. Also for free. It’s a global artwork. The youngest now is eleven years old. The oldest is 82 years old. And they’re from Korea, Bangladesh, US, Canada, Europe, Africa, India, Australia, New Zealand. Tomorrow, I’m talking to a Chinese girl who moved to New Zealand who is a multi potentialite and is going to be in the book Cool diversity, diversity. And tell your story. Don’t tell your story. Hi, I’m Perry, 46, have three kids, and I wear nail Polish. That’s boring. Tell another story. Tell a nonlinear story. And then all these nonlinear stories together is going to tell the world one story about how amazing it is to look at things from different angles and that we can really start using diversity.

[00:54:08.650] – Diane Foy

Go check it out on the website I’m joining. I’m in Yay.

[00:54:13.990] – Perry Knoppert

I love that.

[00:54:14.700] – Diane Foy

I have one last question. How do you make money if everything’s free

[00:54:18.510] – Perry Knoppert

I don’t. No, that’s serious. I gave up everything one and a half years ago. I was so sick and tired of everything. And my relationship ended. And the landlord where I was living wasn’t happy with me. And he wanted to have a lease for another half year. I couldn’t afford it. So he threw me out of the house, literally, and I became homeless, and that’s it. And I thought, I’m going to do everything completely different. That was the big reset in life. And now I live from donations because people are so kind in the movement to donate sometimes a little bit, and that’s how I live. And not having any money is pure wealth and freedom. I can tell you that.

[00:55:04.860] – Diane Foy

Dad, we have to have another whole conversation about that.

[00:55:08.850] – Perry Knoppert

It’s fascinating. There are no invoices. There’s nothing because there’s no money. And it’s freedom. And the decisions that I take with the Octopus movement and the things I’m building, I’m taking decisions because of the why to make a difference in the world and not because of the money. And that’s a huge difference. Wow.

[00:55:29.110] – Diane Foy

That’s amazing. Fascinating.

[00:55:32.730] – Perry Knoppert

Thank you.

[00:55:33.990] – Diane Foy


[00:55:34.490] – Perry Knoppert

Come and join us.

[00:55:35.630] – Diane Foy

I will thank you so much for joining this show today and I will leave links in the show notes and all that good stuff and that’s it. Thank you so much.

[00:55:49.470] – Perry Knoppert

Thank you too. This was really fun and I’m always happy to talk about things I’m doing and I hope it inspires some people and come and check it out what we’re doing. If you want to talk to me, reach out. I’m always happy to have Zoom calls and meet people all over the world. It’s fascinating. So thank you so much. Diane love it wonderful.